Like every other blogger in the world, I'm getting behind on my emails. My biggest problem is the images that people are sending to me don't seem to want to upload properly. I blame it on my being on a Mac... Anyways, this email has no pictures so up it goes!
Purg,
Sorry to hit your email up twice in one day (I am TRYING to get your other post up Nichley!), just would like yours and the community’s help on this list decision I have been debating with myself the past few weeks (inner monolog is starting not to be so inner…)I feel ya man, I agonize over lists... It's an issue. ;D.
Here are the two lists I am trying to decide between, one is very specific on what I need to do tactics wise and has counter built in to the varied threats (see what I did here, eh?).
List One:
2000 Space Wolves:
HQ:
Logan Grimnar
Rune Priest: Power Armor, BP/Runic Weapon, Stormcaller, Murderous Hurricane
WGBL: Power Armor, Storm Bolter, Wolf Claw, 2x Fenrisian Wolves, Saga: Hunter
Elites:
Lone Wolf: Terminator Armor, Storm Shield, Chainfist
Lone Wolf: Terminator Armor, Storm Shield, Chainfist
Wolf Scouts: 5 Scouts, Melta gun, PW
Troops: (Count as)
Wolf Guard: 3x Power Armor/SB, 2x Terminator/SB/WC, 1x Terminator/SB/WC/CML
Wolf Guard: 3x Power Armor/BP/CCW, 1x Power Armor/Combi-Melta, 1x Terminator/PF/SS/CML
Wolf Guard: 3x Power Armor/BP/CCW, 1x Power Armor/Combi-Melta, 1x Terminator/PF/SS/CML
Wolf Guard: 3x Power Armor/BP/CCW, 1x Power Armor/Combi-Melta, 1x Terminator/PF/SS/CML
Fast Attack:
Thunder Wolf Calvary: 1x PF/SS, 1x Wolf Claw
Landspeeder Typhoon
Landspeeder Typhoon
Heavy:
Long Fangs: 5 man, Pack Leader, 4x Lascannons
Tactics:
Logan is attached to Long Fangs for either Relentless or Tank Hunter, allows for long range Anti-AV13/14 also DoW deployment issues nullified.
Scouts reserved for outflank, which the unit can provide backfield tarpit/vehicle bust/back field objective contest. Lone Wolves are anti - MC/Walker and/or firepower sponge, yay for 2 wounds, eternal warrior, and FNP with a 2/3+ save!
Count as Troops work for mid-field Superiority with the 1st squad having the WGBL and Rune attached, good for busting TH/SS termies with volume or if not in assault I can produce 14 Storm Bolter shots and 1 Krak/Frag shot. I will take either. Other 3 WG units support/objective claim.
TWC is for counter punch when Lone Wolves engage in CC.
Speeders and Long Fangs deal with armor other than transports which I hope to de-mech with 12 Krak missiles and 4 Lascannon by turn 2. Speeders can cover flankers.
I can see Logan splitting from Long Fangs once they are in position, and any LRC/Vindys are neutralized.
Ok, things I don't like about this list:
The Typhoons stick out like a sore thumb. I would ditch them. Maybe keep them as Deep Striking MM Speeders, but starting them on the board is not wise, methinks. Likewise, to me, a single TWC sticks out like a sore thumb. If it's actually a threat to something they can easily neutralize it. Thunderwolves go down like hooches to things like Autocannons and mass Multilaser fire where their toughness is no defense.
The Typhoons stick out like a sore thumb. I would ditch them. Maybe keep them as Deep Striking MM Speeders, but starting them on the board is not wise, methinks. Likewise, to me, a single TWC sticks out like a sore thumb. If it's actually a threat to something they can easily neutralize it. Thunderwolves go down like hooches to things like Autocannons and mass Multilaser fire where their toughness is no defense.
If you are going to do the "big Wolf Guard squad in midfield thing, then go all the way. Make it ten men with two Cyclone Launchers, keep the other eight as Power Armor. Give the Terminators Storm Shields and one with a Fist and one with a Chainfist. Stick the Wolf Guard with them to give the entire bunch the option of an obnoxious 3+ cover save. The Rune Priest is nice also allowing them to move out into the open at will and still keep a 4+ cover.
I don't feel like every single Cyclone Termi needs to be rockin the SS/Fist combos if you have two Lone Wolves and your big central Wolf Guard squad. That should save you some points to go towards the larger unit. If you can afford to take a Second Thunderwolf and the big squad while dropping the Speeders and the excess wargear that's what I would do.
Grimnar will of course disagree - he likes Chainfists everywhere he can get them. Me, I think that the two Lone Wolves and the one Wolf Guard squad is "enough."
List Two:
2000pt Space Wolves:
Logan Grimnar
Rune Priest: Power Armor, BP/Runic Weapon, Stormcaller, Murderous Hurricane
WGBL: Power Armor, Thunder Wolf, Wolf Claw, Storm Shield, Saga: Warrior Born
Elites:
Lone Wolf: Terminator Armor, Storm Shield, Chainfist
Lone Wolf: Terminator Armor, Storm Shield, Chainfist
Wolf Scouts: 5 man, Melta gun, PW
Troops: (Count as)
Wolf Guard: 3x Power Armor/BP/CCW, 1x Power Armor/Combi-Melta, 1x Terminator/PF/SS/CML
Wolf Guard: 3x Power Armor/BP/CCW, 1x Power Armor/Combi-Melta, 1x Terminator/PF/SS/CML
Wolf Guard: 3x Power Armor/BP/CCW, 1x Power Armor/Combi-Melta, 1x Terminator/PF/SS/CML
Wolf Guard: 3x Power Armor/BP/CCW, 1x Power Armor/Combi-Melta, 1x Terminator/PF/SS/CML
Fast Attack:
Thunder Wolf Calvary: 1x PF/SS
Landspeeder Tornado: MM/HF
Landspeeder Tornado: MM/HF
Heavy:
Long Fangs: Pack Leader, 4x ML
Long Fangs: Pack Leader, 4x ML
I like this list better - it has better all around balance I think. Again, I don't think every squad needs the full wargear kit of SS/PF but you can play test it and see how you like it. This list has two Thunderwolves and two Land Speeders, I like the setup quite a bit better. If you can squeeze some Fenrisien Wolves onto the WGBL I think you won't regret it - the ability to pwn off hits onto 10 point models can't be underestimated. Lone Wolves are also particularly obnoxious with a single Fenrisien Wolf attached but they don't "need" it to survive (and sometimes you don't want them to)! The biggest problem here is that I don't think Logan or the Rune Priest really have a "home" here. Consider trying to bulk out one of the Wolf Guard squads to 10 men with two Cyclones, even dropping the Priest if you have to, and then stick Logan with them. That gives you Strength 9 move-and-shoot firepower and Logan moves into midfield where you like him.
This List is more about volume of Krak/Frag Missiles with Counter CC added in. Logan/Rune will be in the front lines, WGBL is counter CC, with TWC helping. Landspeeder will Reserve w/Scouts. I think I have the points to add in additional SBs into each WG squad for added firepower, or a Combi-Flamer...
So looking at these two lists I am trying to see which would give me the “complete picture” in terms of balance and competitive game play. So I did a little Pro/Con list that I will briefly share:
PROS:
List One:
- Has a Mini CC Deathstar supported my ranged support and Improved cover saving ability via WGBL.
- Has Lascannons that can provide instant arms length LRC/Vindy/Hammerhead/Transport busting capabilites
- List can move as a unit and support each other as they advance.
- One one unit is off the board, so less reserve roll dependancy
List Two:
- Has a very Balanced feel and redundancy
- TWC/WGBL can support better since they are separate units
- 16 Krak missiles at my disposal, transports 11AV be damned!
- Logan Plays more in the mid-field then “babysitting” Long Fangs This is why I ultimately changed over to the Multimelta Longfangs from the Lascannons (and will put them in a pod for a "logan bomb" after I convert my pods). I just didn't "like" Logan hanging out in the backfield basically directing fire. It works. It's good... I just didn't like it. *shrug*
CONS:
List One:
- Feels like it may have to many “moving” parts that can = disaster if units fall out of place
- Logan may fall behind force while keeping the Long Fangs on target
- Don’t like TWC in one squad
- Not sure Typhoons will last long if opponent realizes they are the anti-flanker units
- Not sure if I can deal with a TH/SS Bubble wrap even with a mini-deathstar.
List Two
- Not Sure if the DS Landspeeders will be good for the list overall
- No clear way to deal with Vindy/LRC units on turn one
- Maybe too many ML?
- Unsure if the 35pts for Warrior Born will get its value
- Not sure if I can deal with a TH/SS bubble either.
So there is a brief look into how I think when building lists, it maybe over anaylization at the end of it, but its how I operate as a consumer/list builder at the end of the day. So please let me know your thoughts!
I like the second list better, I think you should operate off that base. I'm just writing this up quickly, I'll see if I can grab time to actually points-cost something out for you.
