Critiquing Kirby's Coteaz List

Kirby posted up a 2000 point version of his Acolyte spam Grey Knight list. You can see his list and his original post here.

Well, his list was similar enough to a few of my list ideas that I figured I would respond in a thoughtful way. Unfortunately, the length of time and cumbersome nature of the comment system precluded anything really "thoughtful" so I sent him an email instead.

Then Chumbalaya made fun of me for not blogging it, so here you go. The email.

Here’s the thing with the psykers… I think they are useful and add an element of “keeping them honest” but their utility is far higher against clustered up infantry than against vehicles. Also, investing more in them does not increase their chances of working, it only increases their impact if they DO work. Therefore, I would suggest limiting them to four or five psykers, and using them for anti-MEQ duty. Again, they might not kill much, but fourty points is not a lot to invest in keeping your opponent honest. As such a short-ranged army, you need to be able to concentrate your forces on a single section of your opponent’s forces, and it is difficult to do if they can simply concentrate right back. Four psykers gives you a S6, AP3 blast, which is as good as you NEED it to be against Marines – you are wounding on 2’s and ignoring their armor. Anything else is over-investing. An argument could be made for the fifth psyker to mess with Feel No Pain models, but the truth is that ignoring their armor is already putting a huge dent in their survivability. It’s a list dependent choice I suppose. The point being, I think you’ve over-invested in the Psykers.

Also, I don’t think that the Psyker squads need vehicles if you reduce their threat profile sufficiently (as I suggested above). They can simply be in your backfield, moving and (maybe) popping off anti-infantry blasts. Don't forget you have LOADS of infantry models on the table, so it's not like they are going to be the only target for your opponent (or the most threatening). If they come under torrent of fire, simply go to ground (another advantage of investing less in them – you lose less if you need to GtG.

Paladins have the cool factor going for them, but I think they do little that more Purifiers can’t do. Yes, Paladins compete for shots with your Razorbacks, but Purifiers compete for shots with your Acolytes. Let your Mech take care of themselves and worry about protecting your troops, imo.

I have put this list together several times in a few variations, but your list helped me to tweak it a bit more in a way that I like. I don’t have the book in front of me so check my points value memory:

Coteaz
Purifiers x 10, Psycannons x 4, Hammers x 2, Razorback w/TL Assault Cannon, Psybolt
Purifiers x 10, Psycannons x 4, Hammers x 2, Razorback w/TL Assault Cannon, Psybolt
Purifiers x 5, Psycannons x 2, Hammer x 2, Razorback w/TL Assault Cannon, Psybolt
Acolytes x 5, Stormbolters x 5, Razorback w/TL Assault Cannon, Psybolt
Acolytes x 5, Stormbolters x 5, Razorback w/TL Assault Cannon, Psybolt
Acolytes x 5, Stormbolters x 5, Razorback w/TL Assault Cannon, Psybolt
Acolytes x 5, Stormbolters x 5, Razorback w/TL Assault Cannon, Psybolt
Mystics x 4, Warriors x 5
Mystics x 4, Warriors x 5
Psyfleman Dread
Psyfleman Dread
Psyfleman Dread

So you have five combat squads of Purifiers, which are scary to a lot of different things, and lend a lot of firepower and a legitimate close combat threat. You have seven TL Assault Cannon R-Backs, and three Dreads, so one less vehicle, but one more with a gun. The Purifiers get their hammers back (needed). The mystics are ideal rear-objective holders, contributing their firepower from 36” away, able to drop blasts on deep strikers and otherwise not too terribly threatening (helpful, resilient ENOUGH and not threatening ENOUGH are a great combo for your backfield, imo).

Anyways, those are my thoughts.

 

I also keep coming back to my desire to mechanize my Space Wolves. I'm really torn, because Rhino chassis are a finite commodity, and I only have eight of them. So I really need to decide which army to mechanize - my Space Wolves or my Grey Knights. 

 

I think both armies are "good" but I'm really somewhat torn as to which I *like* better. I'm sure some will simply say they are both boring Razorback armies but I'm not really concerned about what the pedants think, there are some pretty big differences between the armies in terms of playstyle and tools available to them. Here is the Space Wolves list I've been mulling over:

 

Rune Priest, Chooser of the Slain, Stormcaller, Murderous Hurricane

 

-Wolf Guard x 10, 2 Terminators with Cyclone Launchers, 2 Power Armor with Combimeltas, Power Weapons and Meltabombs, 4 Power Armor with Combimeltas and Power Weapons

-Wolf Scouts x 5, Meltagun
-Wolf Scouts x 5, Meltagun

Grey Hunters x 5, Meltagun, Rhino
Grey Hunters x 5, Meltagun, Rhino
Grey Hunters x 5, Meltagun, Rhino
Grey Hunters x 5, Meltagun, Rhino
Grey Hunters x 5, Razorback, Las/PlasGrey Hunters x 5, Razorback, Las/Plas


Thunderwolf Cavalry, Wolf Claw

Thunderwolf Cavalry, Wolf Claw
Thunderwolf Cavalry, Wolf Claw

Longfangs x 4, Missiles, Pack Leader, Razorback, Las/Plas
Longfangs x 4, Missiles, Pack Leader, Razorback, Las/Plas


Pretty simple stuff really. I could swap out the TWC for Land Speeders with Multimeltas and Heavy Flamers. Either would be fine really but I like the Cavalry for the extra close combat response. The power weapons on the Wolf Guard aren't really "necessary" but there's also something to be said for cheap power weapons throughout the army to help against FNP and the like. You have 25 bodies pushing midfield, 12 bodies coming out of their backfield, 12 bodies with mobile Longrange firepower that are also scoring, and 10 bodies in your backfield providing fire support. It's got all the tools. You could drop a cav model and all the Power Weapons to swap in Njal, if you so desired. 

Anyways, not really sure which I like more.